Another Monday, another myth to beat down. This one isn’t necessarily a myth, but I do think it is a bit of a half truth that I talked about last week. To some of you who read this, you will probably find it pretty abrasive, especially if you are a big believer in what I’m talking about, and what it is that I am talking about. Some of you will probably say that I am the one coming off half cocked. Oh well, to each his own. If there isn’t someone who hates you and your ideas, especially in the Strength and conditioning field, it’s not a good thing, because more than likely, it means guys don’t really give a shit about what it is you’re trying to say.
I’m sure some of you guys have seen that Mike Boyle recently released a new series of DVD’s titled “Functional strength Coach 3.0 A Joint by Joint Approach to Training.” For those of you who haven’t, apparently the big focus, or marketing emphasis is on “The death of the conventional squat.” how do I know this you ask? His landing page. When you click on his product link it says it real big at the top. First thing. He then goes into some talking and then there is a 5 minute video from a seminar that he has done.
From my understanding of the video, his reason to no longer squat is that the back is the limiting factor. He goes so far as to say that the squat isn’t a lower body exercise. He says it a lower back exercise. Then he goes on talking about how his athletes did XXX weight for XX reps. This is my personal opinion, but his logic is completely flawed. ANYONE who has squatted with a heavy weight on their back will tell you it is indeed a leg exercise. How he says that it isn’t a leg exercise, but a back exercise, is completely beyond me. My only guess is you’re doing it wrong. WAY wrong.
My first point of emphasis is that with the math he is using. Completely flawed, as far as muscular work goes. He suggests that because his athletes can do 140lbs for 14 reps of an exercise, they should be able to do 280lbs for 14 reps on the squat. They can’t, so obviously, according to his theory, single leg movements are superior. Here is the kicker though. They aren’t doing single leg squats. How do you factor in the back leg? I can say this much, it WILL do work. I don’t give a shit what anyone says. Anyone who says that the “working” leg is isolated is blowing smoke up your ass. So the math is wrong.
The biggest issue I have with it is that both Coach Boyle and the guys who are now on the “squats are garbage” train seem to only mention guys who, to be honest, aren’t that strong. What happens when you get a strong kid in your gym? If you have a guy walking through the door that squats 650? you going to try to load him down with 280-300 pounds and have him do it with one leg? A question I would like to see answered is HOW DO YOU LOAD THAT MUCH WEIGHT? Belt squats? Drop 800 bucks on a 300lb adjustable weight vest? I doubt it. You HAVE TO PUT A BAR ON THEIR BACK, which, according to Coach Boyles argument, is exactly why they aren’t squatting in the first place.
Here is another question. What are you doing to a kid who might play at the next level? Say you have a running back who is going to play college football. He starts with you in May after graduation and works with you until he leaves for camp in August. Guess what he is more than likely going to have to do when he reports for camp? He is going to have to do some sort of max squat attempt. I would almost guarantee it. I know that I had to when I reported. So, what kind of issues do you have taking a kids money to get him ready for fall camp and then he GOES IN UNPREPARED? Absolute bullshit excuse. My buddy Jason Ferruggia touched on this same point in his rebuttal in his blog. Sorry buddy, I swear I’m not plagiarizing!
I will admit though, that I don’t own the DVD set. The information I am taking from is what Coach Boyle has put into his marketing campaign and feedback from others who commented on the same topic. I’m sure that someone will fire back, but, if you want people to make informed comments about your product and idea.
That’s pretty much all I have got for this one. Let me leave you with this question. Athletes have been strength training for literally decades. The Russians had men who spent their entire lives doing nothing but searching for ways to make athletes superior to everyone on THE PLANET. My question to you is this. If These single leg loading movements were as vastly superior to squatting as Coach Boyle would have you believe, don’t you think we would read of, or at least have heard of, the myriad of Russian athletes who never squatted because it was inferior? Oh, thats right. You don’t. Because they squatted. And were the best athletes on the PLANET.
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In the words of the great coach Rip:
“There is never an absolute answer to everything, except of course that you have to do your squats. There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a pussy.”
Great point about the back leg supporting the load. That really got me to thinking. I do really respect a lot of Coach Boyle’s work, but for the numbers to add up, wouldn’t the athletes have to do loaded one-leg squats?
Thanks for this article Jason. I saw this on J. Ferrugia’s twitter page. I am sure Mike Boyle showed that particular piece to get people talking. He really has the internet of fire with this debate and as a business man I am sure that was the point.
I do know from my own personal experiences when I experienced a back injury in the ARMY and noticed that my lower back was a limiting factor I deadlifted more and made sure that was not the weakest link.
I do know that Coach Barry Ross author of “Underground Speed to Faster Running” has some interesting arguments why he does not back squat but chooses deadlifts over squats to imrpove speed and training economy.
Look forward to reading this blog more
PEACE!
Thanks for checking out the blog guys. I appreciate it. i definitely agree that this is a marketing ploy, but i saw some other coaches, whom I also respect, coming out firing against the squat. I really believe there are some who think that what he is saying is true. I have a lot of respect for Coach Boyle, but this is one thing that I thing he has said that i just don’t agree with.
Jason
Hey Jason,
First off i can see what your saying but having read Coach Boyle write some extra comments on this video clip it did help explain his theories a little better. For instance he mentions that your one point is correct, that the back leg, no matter what, is going to help with the ‘working leg’ during a single leg squat. He went on to say that on the whole this is small enough to not worry about, i think its a technique thing, if your watching your athlete and he’s obviously pushing hard with his back leg you gotta stop that as much as possible.
Also with the ussue of loading and eventually having to use a bar once the weight gets too much to use with weight vests and dumbbells, Mike and Alwyn Cosgrove discussed it. Their argument was that in a 500pound coventional squat each leg takes approx 250pounds but the back takes 500pound, but in a 250pound single leg squat, each leg will still take 250pounds but the back is now only supporting 250pounds. Obviously this is simplyfied, but when i saw it explained like that it did help make alot of his theory make sense to me.
I think your arguments are valid and i love your Q&A section on EFS, its obvious your one knowledgable guy, but i think without seeing the whole dvd set its hard to know exactly the reasoning behind things coaches say. The 5 minute clip was just a controversial marketing moment, i’d bet the whole single leg squat part of the lecture lasted much longer! I wonder how much of it was Boyle’s decision to market like that. Incidently most athletes i see train would be much better off doing single leg movements because their conventional technique is so awful! Thats their coaches, not Boyles or your fault.
I could be way off the mark, i haven’t bought the dvd set either, but probably will one day when i have money. I’m not about to stop squatting but i think its good to question the ‘norm’ sometimes and make people think about why and how they do the things they do in the gym! That way we can carry on making advances in strength and conditioning into the 2010’s rather than having the last word in the field go to the russians in the 70’s.
Anyway this post is now way too long! Stay strong man, Rhys!
I love this one, great marketing. another point J-if the back is the limiting factor wouldn’t you want to make it stronger? This is the example I use for athletes all the time. Your legs/hips produce force that is translated through the abs and low back into the upper body. For all sporting endeavors the more you translate the better you are at your sport(strength being equal) ex: if i put x amount of force into a pencil it will go up x feet because it is rigid. if I cut the pencil in half and place a block of jello there, when I again put x force into the pencil it doesn’t go very high cause it dissipates into the jello. So if your legs can produce more force than your back can translate there will be no performance improvement because after all it’s about making an athlete run faster/jump higher not see what they can one leg squat. Keep the limiting factor the same and the athlete stays the same, no matter how good they are at a certain exercise. My point also relates to injury’s as well. Anyone aware of the amount of force the low back receives when two football players collide? In scientific terms a “shit ton”, but since those athletes won’t be faster I guess they don’t have to worry about increases in impact forces.
J, I read about this first on Ferruggia’s site last week…and then again today, when J.F. explained that the emphasis should be placed on the Core. I believe the Squat will never go away, and like you said athletes more so Football players are going to be faced with the Squat in College over and over. This exercise is a natural movement!
If it is performed correctly, it is amazing for building strength thru out the body and is a great mental edge for a lot of athletes. Just check out the hard work ethic displayed by Big Squaters… Nuff said.
Keep up the Good Work J.P.!!!
Thanks for checking it out Mike. i appreciate it!
Jason
You’re damn right!
Rhys, thanks for checking it out. i read what both Coach Boyle and alwyn had said about the spinal loading, and effects of loading on the legs unilaterally versus bilaterally, but like JL and I both mentioned above, collision sports put a “shit ton” of stress on the spine anyway.
As for it just being a marketing piece, I realize that as well. However, I think that if one were going to release something that you KNOW is going to cause a shitstorm, as Coach boyle knew prior to releasing it, I feel that posts like mine and jason Ferruggias are completely justified. I shouldn’t have to spend 200 dollars so you can completely expound on your point.
Jason
Nii, Thanks for checking it out. It is much appreciated!
Jason
For the math, thats the only way it would work out. I know that its generaliation, but I really want to see one of his athletes do a 1 leg squat with 140 for 14. Then not be able to perform a squat with 280 for 14. Then he will definitely have my attention. Until then, i am sticking to my guns!
Being an exercise scientist i would love to see the research behind his statements. It would be a massive disaster to take away the squat in any athlete’s personal program. I would love to see any of his research backed with kinematic evedence???….I doubt thats going to happen.
Furthermore to say that the squat is primarily a lower back exercise is completely out of the question. Muscle twitches are registered not only in the lower back but the biceps femoris, vastus lateralis, vastus intermedius, vastus medialus,rectus femoris and also registers twitches in the tensor fascia latae, the band which tenses the core activating numerous amounts of core muscle both anteriorly and posteriorly. Not even to mention the muscles that are stabilising those active muscles such as the semi membranosis and semi tendinosis.
I would love to see this video…
AC
Adam,
thanks for the comments. You’re right, in my opinion. I still say if you’re teaching the squat the proper way and see it as a lower bck exercise, then maybe you need to rethink the way you are coaching it.
Jason
there is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that can produce the level of contrail nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation & growth, connective tissue stress & strength, physiological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than a correctly preformed back squat
The key question is Are you trying to make someone a better athlete or make them squat more? Squatting more does not AUTOMATICALLY make them a better athletes.
If you are working with great athletes already, squats may not be the best choice. If they are not very good athletes and weak, squats are a great choice.
Quality movement should be first and foremost for athletes.
I do agree that throwing out a main compound lift like the squat is not ideal for all athletes.
rock on
Mike T Nelson PhD(c)
Hilarious!